Difference between revisions of "Rules talk:Elves"

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:Probably a decent way to go about it, yeah. [[User:Tiryst|Tiryst]] 02:42, 29 August 2006 (CDT)
 
:Probably a decent way to go about it, yeah. [[User:Tiryst|Tiryst]] 02:42, 29 August 2006 (CDT)
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::Done. If that's acceptable, then how about we kick this stuff into playtest? I think I've got just about enough fluff in at the moment, to start... just need a few more House names. [[User:Alothin|Hroefn]] 14:49, 6 September 2006 (CDT)
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It all looks excelent, but wouldn't doubling the cost on stam drain and stam boosting techs be a little detrimental for a race supposedly dependant on magic? To me that is like saying you are a dairy farmer, must live on milk but you are lactose intolerant. Might it be better to instead of putting double stam costs across the board to something along the lines of just knocking it down to Neutral bias for every PL but magic? I don't think that balances with the good as it stands. That is my own oppinion though. [[User:Dark Wolf|Dark Wolf]] 15:48, 2 October 2006 (EDT)
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:They're not ''dependent'' on magic. They simply have extensive traditions of it, which means everyone is schooled in it to some degree. It's perfectly possible to make a feasible magic-wielding character without stamina modifications, especially when you have two powertypes to work with. They have some very powerful advantages -- that means they need significant disadvantages. [[User:Alothin|Hroefn]] 20:47, 2 October 2006 (CDT)
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This is just me quickly tipping in a couple of pennies.  Over all I think the race looks solid, but if there was one thing I disagreed with it'd be halving gains for a power-level when you have no choice but to have two when you begin.  Prior to the removal of the casting bonus, this wouldn't have made much of a difference, but I have a character with a split between physical and magical power-levels, and just having <i>regular</i> gains makes it difficult for her to get stronger.  While forcing split power-levels at the start of the character is an interesting drawback, I'd have to say I'd be much more inclined to play an elf if each power-level could gain normally.  [[User:Snackycakes|Snackycakes]]
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:Actually, I think you're right. I think that was a leftover from my initial thoughts on keeping them correctly balanced, but the later-added requirements render that obsolete. I'll be removing that drawback, methinks. [[User:Alothin|Hroefn]] 18:14, 4 October 2006 (CDT)
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Methinks this is good, I like the Family Specializations, and even the rigidity of Elven bodies, the thing I see as the worst disavdantage is the increase in stamina costs. All the rest is excellent. Quite fun, really. Can't wait to play one. [[User:Vraeyda|Vraeyda]] 15:19, 23 October 2006
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:A portion of the Family Specialization section confuses me. It says that starting power has to be divided 2/3 to one power type and 1/3 to another, but then says that the secondary power has to '''always''' be 1/3 the primary power, which doesn't make mathematical sense (such a configuration would mean 3/4 would be primary and 1/4 secondary). To make things more confusing, there is then a clause that says the secondary power can never exceed the primary power, which would be completely impossible anyway, considering the preceeding clause. Can we clear this up a bit, please? --[[User:Icebreed|Ice]] 20:58, 1 January 2008 (PST)
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::It's actually correct as it reads now. It specifies the ''starting'' PL must be divided 2/3 and 1/3, but after play begins, it may vary from that relationship. Thus, the secondary power can dip to being as low as 1/3 (instead of 1/2) the strength of the primary power, or it can rise as high as equal to the primary. It's a range. [[User:Alothin|Hroefn]] <sup>'''[[User_talk:Alothin|T]]'''</sup> 21:38, 1 January 2008 (PST)
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:Oh, my mistake. I missed the "at least" part of that sentence. Makes more sense, now that I see it. --[[User:Icebreed|Ice]] 22:52, 1 January 2008 (PST)
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Quick question here; for the Secrets of Training heirloom, it says gains are increased to 4%.  I'm making an elf right now with a ki/magic combination, and I jus realized that magic doesn't get enhanced gain.  Does this 4% from secrets of training apply to their total PL, or only their phys/ki/psi PLs?  If it doesn't apply to both, keeping PLs at least 2/3 to 1/3 will be a little more difficult. --[[User:Snackycakes|Snackycakes]] 00:55, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
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:I'd imagine the 4% applies to any PL they have, because Magic can get "enhanced" gains in the form of higher base gain rates, it just can't get CT: Enhanced Gain. Saiyans who practice magic, for example, still get their 4% after all. [[User:Tiryst|Tiryst]] 03:23, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
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::Ah, that's what I figured, though I wasn't sure if Enhanced Gain was a Total PL thing or not.  Thanks.  --[[User:Snackycakes|Snackycakes]] 08:34, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
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:::The Enhanced Gain technique is PL-specific, not TotalPL. But racial gain rate applies to all PLs. [[User:Alothin|Hroefn]] <sup>'''[[User_talk:Alothin|T]]'''</sup> 17:40, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
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== Demotion ==
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I believe that when I initially proposed the idea of adding Elves as a major race after the first Null, I took the wrong approach, making them xenophobic and isolated. As a result, there are relatively few Elves, since it can be difficult to explain why they would leave their homeland. Since it would probably be unnatural to suddenly open up Elves to the world after ages of seclusion, it is probably a better idea to demote them to an approved public minor race.
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As this status change has no real effect on the race other than its visibility, I don't think it should be a big deal to change it. It is still something that should be done, so new players who visit won't be confused into thinking that Elves can be easily integrated into any setting when they cannot. To contrast with Nameks, who are also relatively unused, Nameks have no taboos that stop them from travelling, and they are canon. Nameks are probably largely unplayed because it can be hard to make them interesting and/or distinguished from other Nameks.--[[User:Icebreed|Ice]] 14:29, 27 September 2013 (PDT)
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:Yes. --[[User:DaShizer|Dashizer]] 27th day of September in the 2013 th year of our lord
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::Looks like Marcus made the change. I'll change the character app to match. --[[User:Icebreed|Ice]] 13:16, 28 September 2013 (PDT)

Latest revision as of 13:16, 28 September 2013

Looking all right. However, I'm not sure the Arcane Tradition/Family Spec combo is as effective of a disadvantage as might be assumed. At the most, it'll cost the character 500 PL, put to a "useless" PL type.Tiryst 20:16, 28 August 2006 (CDT)

Good point. I was thinking of fixing that by requiring that one-third of gains, up to maximum allowable cap, would be required to be put to the secondary power level(s). How about that? Hroefn 23:29, 28 August 2006 (CDT)

It might be easier just to require that the secondary power be no less (and no more?) than a certain fraction of the first, or of the total PL. Same effect, easier concept to grasp. --Ice 01:15, 29 August 2006 (CDT)

Probably a decent way to go about it, yeah. Tiryst 02:42, 29 August 2006 (CDT)
Done. If that's acceptable, then how about we kick this stuff into playtest? I think I've got just about enough fluff in at the moment, to start... just need a few more House names. Hroefn 14:49, 6 September 2006 (CDT)

It all looks excelent, but wouldn't doubling the cost on stam drain and stam boosting techs be a little detrimental for a race supposedly dependant on magic? To me that is like saying you are a dairy farmer, must live on milk but you are lactose intolerant. Might it be better to instead of putting double stam costs across the board to something along the lines of just knocking it down to Neutral bias for every PL but magic? I don't think that balances with the good as it stands. That is my own oppinion though. Dark Wolf 15:48, 2 October 2006 (EDT)

They're not dependent on magic. They simply have extensive traditions of it, which means everyone is schooled in it to some degree. It's perfectly possible to make a feasible magic-wielding character without stamina modifications, especially when you have two powertypes to work with. They have some very powerful advantages -- that means they need significant disadvantages. Hroefn 20:47, 2 October 2006 (CDT)


This is just me quickly tipping in a couple of pennies. Over all I think the race looks solid, but if there was one thing I disagreed with it'd be halving gains for a power-level when you have no choice but to have two when you begin. Prior to the removal of the casting bonus, this wouldn't have made much of a difference, but I have a character with a split between physical and magical power-levels, and just having regular gains makes it difficult for her to get stronger. While forcing split power-levels at the start of the character is an interesting drawback, I'd have to say I'd be much more inclined to play an elf if each power-level could gain normally. Snackycakes

Actually, I think you're right. I think that was a leftover from my initial thoughts on keeping them correctly balanced, but the later-added requirements render that obsolete. I'll be removing that drawback, methinks. Hroefn 18:14, 4 October 2006 (CDT)

Methinks this is good, I like the Family Specializations, and even the rigidity of Elven bodies, the thing I see as the worst disavdantage is the increase in stamina costs. All the rest is excellent. Quite fun, really. Can't wait to play one. Vraeyda 15:19, 23 October 2006

A portion of the Family Specialization section confuses me. It says that starting power has to be divided 2/3 to one power type and 1/3 to another, but then says that the secondary power has to always be 1/3 the primary power, which doesn't make mathematical sense (such a configuration would mean 3/4 would be primary and 1/4 secondary). To make things more confusing, there is then a clause that says the secondary power can never exceed the primary power, which would be completely impossible anyway, considering the preceeding clause. Can we clear this up a bit, please? --Ice 20:58, 1 January 2008 (PST)
It's actually correct as it reads now. It specifies the starting PL must be divided 2/3 and 1/3, but after play begins, it may vary from that relationship. Thus, the secondary power can dip to being as low as 1/3 (instead of 1/2) the strength of the primary power, or it can rise as high as equal to the primary. It's a range. Hroefn T 21:38, 1 January 2008 (PST)
Oh, my mistake. I missed the "at least" part of that sentence. Makes more sense, now that I see it. --Ice 22:52, 1 January 2008 (PST)

Quick question here; for the Secrets of Training heirloom, it says gains are increased to 4%. I'm making an elf right now with a ki/magic combination, and I jus realized that magic doesn't get enhanced gain. Does this 4% from secrets of training apply to their total PL, or only their phys/ki/psi PLs? If it doesn't apply to both, keeping PLs at least 2/3 to 1/3 will be a little more difficult. --Snackycakes 00:55, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

I'd imagine the 4% applies to any PL they have, because Magic can get "enhanced" gains in the form of higher base gain rates, it just can't get CT: Enhanced Gain. Saiyans who practice magic, for example, still get their 4% after all. Tiryst 03:23, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
Ah, that's what I figured, though I wasn't sure if Enhanced Gain was a Total PL thing or not. Thanks. --Snackycakes 08:34, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
The Enhanced Gain technique is PL-specific, not TotalPL. But racial gain rate applies to all PLs. Hroefn T 17:40, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Demotion

I believe that when I initially proposed the idea of adding Elves as a major race after the first Null, I took the wrong approach, making them xenophobic and isolated. As a result, there are relatively few Elves, since it can be difficult to explain why they would leave their homeland. Since it would probably be unnatural to suddenly open up Elves to the world after ages of seclusion, it is probably a better idea to demote them to an approved public minor race.

As this status change has no real effect on the race other than its visibility, I don't think it should be a big deal to change it. It is still something that should be done, so new players who visit won't be confused into thinking that Elves can be easily integrated into any setting when they cannot. To contrast with Nameks, who are also relatively unused, Nameks have no taboos that stop them from travelling, and they are canon. Nameks are probably largely unplayed because it can be hard to make them interesting and/or distinguished from other Nameks.--Ice 14:29, 27 September 2013 (PDT)

Yes. --Dashizer 27th day of September in the 2013 th year of our lord
Looks like Marcus made the change. I'll change the character app to match. --Ice 13:16, 28 September 2013 (PDT)